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Post by paul1966 on Jan 2, 2014 18:55:50 GMT
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Post by daves on Jan 3, 2014 9:34:36 GMT
Unfortunately I can't help. However the best float ant I've found for all dry flies, including CdCs, is Roman Moser Miracle Float that was recommended to me by Stuart Wardle.
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Post by paul1966 on Jan 3, 2014 18:35:40 GMT
Thanks Dave, it must be good stuff it's seems to be sold out everywhere.
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Post by daves on Jan 4, 2014 9:06:57 GMT
Try getting in touch with Stuart Wardle. His web site is Durham Flyfishers, but ordering stuff through his web site is not easy, however if you phone him he should have some Miracle Float available.
Not sure if the phone number I have is current (07904278889), if not his number is on his web site.
Miracle Float isn't cheep, about £7.50, but one small drop spread between thumb & forefinger then rubbed into the fly will make it float like a cork. Don't be put off by how sticky it feels: it doesn't clog CdC fibres.
Hope this is of help.
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Post by paul1966 on Jan 4, 2014 16:31:08 GMT
Thanks Dave I've ordered some.
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Post by JP on Jan 6, 2014 18:42:58 GMT
It's worth noting that "Frog's Fanny" and its various other forms is not technically a floatant but a desiccant.
Please don't take this as an attempt at being pedantic... there is real merit in understanding the difference and making best use of what's available.
As Dave has already advised Miracle Float is a great floatant. I've also had great success with Loon Aquel (also safe to use on CdC). Just remember that many other floatants, most notably Gink, don't work at all with CdC.
Desiccants such as Frogs Fanny and other fumed silica products work to remove (or more correctly expel) water and slime from an already used fly. Hydrophobic fumed silica (Frogs Fanny) needs to be brushed into the fly to "drive out" moisture either due to waterlogging or clogging with fish's slime.
It's often most productive to use the two types of product in tandem. First treat your chosen dry fly with floatant then use Frogs Fanny to "resurrect" the fly when it becomes waterlogged or slimed up by a fish.
After resurrection using Frogs Fanny it's a judgement call as to whether you apply any more floatant. Personally I find you can resurrect a fly several times before you need to reapply any floatant - if at all.
Another good tip is to clean off your slimed fly before attempting a resurrection with Frogs Fanny. The best way to do this is to swipe the fly across the waters surface a couple of times (a bit like striking with the rod parallel to the water).
One thing to be aware of is that on particularly large, heavily dressed patterns the hydrophobic properties of Frogs Fanny can drive moisture deeper into the dressing. In these circumstances I've found dropping the fly into Halstead & Hartley's Superfloat works a treat.
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Post by custheyder on Jan 7, 2014 11:53:23 GMT
Sorry JP but I have to disagree.
There are two types of fumed silica, hydrophobic and hydrophilic. The hydrophilic is the desiccant that sucks the moisture out of the fly or out of the air and you find it in those little sachets used in packaging. If you use a finely powdered form of the hydrophilic it gets into the fibres, absorbs water and will make the pattern sink!
Frogs Fanny, Toads Tush and the like are hydrophobic. They repel water very strongly. You are correct that brushing it onto a fly (after you've cleaned the slime off) will drive the water away (or into a heavily dressed pattern) but the powder is so fine that some of it does stay in the dressing and acts as a floatant.
There are other products like Shimazaki Dry Shake Powder which are a combination of the two types of fumed silca and to my mind work much better. The dessicant draws out all the water with assistance from the hydrophobic which then acts as a floatant where it gets into the dressing.
None of these powders have a long lasting effect but I do feel they are superior to the oils that gunk up the feathers and equally don't last that long in flowing water.
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Post by JP on Jan 7, 2014 12:47:04 GMT
I can kind of see where you're coming from Daniel but I still stand by what I've said. If you think of Frogs Fanny as a floatant and expect it to keep your fly floating you'll be on a hiding to nothing If you instead think of it as a desiccant product and use it to resurrect a waterlogged fly it's one of the best products out there... particularly for anglers who use a lot of CdC patterns. If you find that the oil type floatant is clogging up your feathers you're either using too much of it or the wrong type. As I mentioned, many of the oil based floatants are not very suitable at all when used with CdC. As Dave has said the Roman Moser Miracle Float is excellent and I'd also highly recommend Loon's Aquel. I'd also add that I feel an oil based floatant is almost essential on tail fibres such as Coq de Leon or micro fibbets. Before becoming completely absorbed by tenkara I've fished a lot of CdC on running water and I've had days where the same CdC fly has been kept afloat (and still in perfect condition) after 40 or 50 fish (not to mention plenty of missed takes and "long distance releases"). I suppose my point is, this combination/approach works for me... but then again - I know you'd never steer anyone wrong so I'd concede that your approach must work for you. Ultimately I'd advise anyone reading this thread to give all the products mentioned a try. As this example between me and you (Daniel) illustrates - what works for one may not work for another - the only sure way to find out what works for you is to try it yourself
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Post by flatsghost on Jan 7, 2014 15:38:45 GMT
Interesting to read the various observations but, can anyone say if the stuff that was the start of this thread is of use to fishermen? I had heard that these dessicants could be bought in bulk cheaply and that we pay way over the odds for it. Is this the stuff I wonder? Cheers Glyn
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Post by custheyder on Jan 7, 2014 23:11:25 GMT
I can't say if the stuff in the link is the correct stuff. My investigation of manufacturers revealed about 20 grades of fumed silica that *might* be the stuff. I'm talking to two factories but they are wanting to sell huge volumes of the stuff. Toads Tush is the cheaper alternative to Frogs Fanny. If I can come up with an alternative at a reasonable price I'll let you know. The eBay fumed silica is not the right stuff it's hydrophilic. The large beads of silica gel also on eBay (2mm to 5mm) are just too big to be useful unless you want to crush them and they will dry a fly but not add any "float" as the hydrophobic fumed silica does. JP ... It will assist in the floatation till it is washed out. As such the floatant effect is short lived with FF so I am in partial agreement with you. Yes there are other liquid/gel floatants out there which don't clog fibres as badly as some. I also totally agree you can over do it. I've seen some people fishing their dries in an oil slick! Does anyone know the volume of the bottles used for FF and TT?
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Post by paul1966 on Jan 8, 2014 0:41:32 GMT
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Post by Paul G on Jan 8, 2014 8:28:27 GMT
Re: suitability, in the same way that you can't just buy 'paper' (wrapping paper versus sketch-pad paper versus tissue paper for example) 'hydrophobic fumed silica comes in a variety of forms. I am sure you could find the right stuff if you were willing to invest in experimenting with the various products.
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Post by custheyder on Jan 8, 2014 12:30:26 GMT
Various grades of stuff on the way.... watch this space!
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Post by flatsghost on Jan 8, 2014 13:59:02 GMT
Thanks for the info chaps. Look forward to hearing your thoughts in due course Daniel. Glyn
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Post by springerman on Feb 13, 2014 10:00:42 GMT
Got some Miracle Float from Stuart Wardle. A very obliging gentleman. I ordered it through the web site without any problems at all. Those that may be interested should take a look at www.durhamflyfishing.co.uk Great service.
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