Tenkara Centre UK Seriyu Rod Help

[jonathan27]

I have a Tenkara Centre Uk Seriyu 12ft 6:4 rod that I just cant get to grips casting. I can lob a couple of nymphs out with it but I cant get casting a dry fly or a single unweighted nymph. The rod seems very soft and through action and I cant get my leader to unfurl a dry fly out. Ive tried a furled leader and 0.35mm level mono but It all just ends in a heap.

Anyone else own one and have mastered the casting? With it being a 6:4 softer tenkara rod is there a casting action I need to adopt?

Jonathan

[daves]

Hi Jonathan. I have one & it needs a very smooth, relatively slow casting stroke, with a gentle stop, otherwise the soft tip will kick back. A smooth Jump Roll cast works well. When I've been using other, faster actioned Tenkara rods I find I have to adapt my casting stroke to the Seiryu. Stu Crofts says the same as he has one. The rod will do the work so just don't try to force the casts.

I also have a Hamon which is a much crisper rod & which responds a bit more like a conventional rod when casting.

Hope this helps, Dave

[Paul G]

I find it really difficult to achieve an accurate "fly first" cast with rod actions that continue to flex significantly after the "stop" on the forward cast. Fly first relies on turnover and a lack of tip rebound.

The difficult thing for the rod-maker is to make things light-ish, whilst keeping stiffness and at the same time have crisp, well-damped recovery of the tip without a lot of rebounding flex going on.

There is a huge amount of variation in actions between rods that are classed 6:4 (or any rating for that matter), so it is a case of adapting your casting stroke to each (and perhaps trying out your friends' rods - or organising/attending a forum tenkara get together to find which actions suit you best)

[springerman]

Hello Jonathan,
I found it difficult to cast when I first started.  I have a Tenkara Centre SAWA 6.4 and an Esoteric 6.4.  Like Paul says, both different.   I used mono leaders together with furled leaders.  I had successes but felt there was better.
It was not until I tried fluorocarbon level lines that I started getting to grips with it.  To me they cast better.
I am very much a novice.  There are more experienced practitioners out there and some very helpful information, on lines, in this forum.
Good Luck.

[Paul G]

Something that might also help is to look at the very narrow "tenkara casting arc" (which is generally much narrower - perhaps somewhere around 15 degrees when you look at the rod-butt rotation - compared to a "standard western" fly cast).
For the seiryu you will need to split the difference between the two extremes - a longer arc than a very tight tenkara cast but still a narrower arc than a more usual western casting stroke.

You will need to significantly cut back on the force that you use in the casting stroke - just enough to cause the rod to flex with its own inertia and the inertia of the casting line.

The "stop" on both the forward and back casts must be pronounced (i.e. have a definite stopping point) - but must be more gentle than the sharp, fast action that is possible with top end Japanese rods. The key to the stop is probably to just "squeeze" the cork handle with your hand to load (i.e. bend) the rod and then to relax your grip again as you feel the rod starting to unload (i.e. straighten) and catapult the line forward.
You might also have to drift the rod a very short way forward after the stop on the forward cast (i.e. when the line is already travelling towards its target) to damp out some more of the tip oscillation.

Having said all of the above - it is still very surprising how narrow the casting arc is for tenkara; so (without having watched your casting stroke) I would tend to guess that the arc that you have may be a little too wide - this is the most common difficulty I find when teaching people to tenkara cast.

As a nice benefit; when you go back to casting a western rod for dry fly at relatively close ranges - you'll find that your loops are a lot sharper because of some of the tenkara muscle memory.

[daves]

I fully agree with Paul re the slight drift immediately after the stop as this reduces an tip recoil. I've just been learning the Italian Casting Style, used with conventional rods to cope with the same problems as Tenkara evolved to cope with & it involves a quite radical forward drift with no real stop during the forward cast, which avoids tip oscillation/kick back (a very real possibility with this fast, dynamic casting style).

[jonathan27]

Dave thank you very much for your sound advice its nice to know Im not alone in thinking its a different casting action. I will slow my casts down and see how I get on from there. Plays a fish beautifully and would like to master the art of tenkara dry fly with it as it feels so delicate.

Paul thanks for the tips on the casting arc Ive just read the article in Total Flyfisher which has the diagrams of the arc just need to get out one evening to put it all into practise.

The more and more I fisb with a Tenkara rod the more confident I get playing fish I feel Ive mastered the casting and fishing of nymphs dry fly is next. Do you feel a furled or level line is best for dry fly?

[phil]

I can only echo the comments above that not all rods are created equal dispite having the same 6:4 designation it is not a standardised designation. As Paul suggests, if you can get your hands on a range of rods then the differences become apparant. Up to date, in my experience, the Japanese rods, such as Nissin, Daiwa, Shimano, Suntech, Shimotsuke and the sublime Oni rod (thanks Paul) seem to have the edge when it comes to the all important weight, action and damping equation.

The tenkara cast requires practice just like any other cast. Words that spring to mind when describing the cast are deft, crisp, and delicate but that doesn't mean the fly just floats like gossamer to the water surface, it can mean very tight, fast loops that present the fly quickly and accurately to the target.

I find casting to a target with a deliberate sense of purpose works wonders on improving the cast and focuses you onto reading the water for potential fish lies.

Try to persist with level lines made from flurocarbon, starting with a rod length of #4 and as your cast improves lighten the line to #3.5, then #3. Then practice with longer than a rod length of line such as 1 1/2 times, 2 times or even more. Extend perhaps only a foot or two at a time. There is so much to play with that you will have many seasons to experiment with.

5 or 10 minutes a day in a back garden, park or some other open space will bring your cast on. Like any skill practice is a continual journey that will reveal more and more to the practitioner as they go on. Perhaps one day after sufficient practice we will attain the kind of mastery of the cast that Masami Sakakibara demonstrates.

Don't forget to relax and enjoy.

Tight lines

phil

[orangeotter]

Hi Jonathan, agree with all the other guys but it may be worth changing your casting style. If you're using the'overhead cast', you WILL get bounce with that rod. I always use a 'Belgian (or Oval cast)and find it superior. It's a less aggressive action with a longer stroke length which I think will suit your rod, here's how it works.

Start with a high tip position and swing the rod smoothly to the side, ensuring that the line dips below the tip. Bring the rod back up to casting position which will throw the line high - then make the forward cast but avoiding too sudden a stop at the front.

THE IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER IS THAT THIS IS A ' CONTINUOUS TENSION CAST'WITH NO SUDDEN STOP BEFORE THE FORWARD STROKE.

I think you'll find it will help.

Good luck.

[daves]

The Oval Cast sounds very similar to the modified Jump Roll Cast that I find useful with Tenkara rods, particularly where an overhead canopy stops me holding the rod high.

[orangeotter]

It certainly is Dave except that a jump roll briefly touches down, the oval always airborn.

Both good alternatives to the basic overhead.

[daves]

My variation stays airborn, it involves just smoothly lifting then sweeping the rod as if playing a tennis ball.

[jonathan27]

Aiming to have a well earned day out next saturday Im going to give the oval/jump roll cast a go.

Would I have greater benefit using a level 0.35 copolymer or #4 fluorocarbon?

[daves]

The fluorocarbon line will be easier to cast as it has more mass & less surface area than the 0.35mm copolymer which is about a 2.75 weight equivalent. If you are fishing an open river where you can always hold the line off the water then the fluorocarbon will be good. Whilst fishing open water in Austria last week with a tricky downstream wind I used a 4 weight fluorocarbon line, but generally I use 0.35 or 0.38mm copolymer & accept that it is not as easy to cast with.

On our recent Austrian trip my mate Steve used a cut down Camo Leader which is tapered copolymer & that worked well in a breeze. It's all a case of trial & error & finding what works for you. With conventional rods I tend to underline them, recently using a 1 weight line on a 2 weight rod, but others prefer to overline their rods so they can feel them load. It's the same with Tenkara.

Let us know how you get on.

[jonathan27]

I've been struggling to find a #4 line in stock anywhere but tracked a #3.5 Sunline Buttobbi which should be with me by weekend.