A Trusted Knot

[custheyder]

When I started fishing with very heavy bugs on thick wire I had trouble keeping the knots secure. The problem I think is a blood knot relies on friction between the knot and the metal of the eye. With a thick wire or conversely a very fine tippet on standard wire it was all too easy for the knot to work free. So I went to a tucked blood knot and didn't have a problem again.

However, there is another knot I use on smaller flies and buzzers. It seems much stronger than the blood knot. You can test this but tying a hook on either end of a length of tippet. One hook with the blood the other with the knot below. give them a sharp tug and see which gives first. Nearly every time I try it the blood gives! So what is this knot?



Tied to a mug handle with a bit of rope I had handy ... Don't ask!

Description of the knot in words:

1. Through the eye
2. Basic overhand knot
3. Continue the same direction of the loop onto the top
4. Loop through twice.
5. Moisten and pull up.
6. It should slide down and bed into the hook eye to make a very small knot.

These are my observations and the solution that has saved me innumerable flies!

Cust.

[leckie]

Cust,

Looks a good knot to use...does it have a name?....I'll give it a try

Alex

[custheyder]

I've no idea what it is called. It was shown me by a Simon Kidd and I've used it ever since on buzzers and small flies. Even if you get your nail behind this knot and give it a tug it won't come undone. You have to cut the flies off.

Let me know how you get on with it.

Cust.

[Deleted]

I think its a surgeons knot. It looks very similar.
If it secures big heavy bugs then i might give it a go.

Stevie.

[leckie]

Guys,
Another good knot in your armoury is the Davy knot...I know that this knot is popular across the pond with our tenkara buddies in the States...here it is



tight lines

Alex

[custheyder]

I've looked closely at the tightening of the Davy knot in the video and it looks like the end of the line is secured against the hook eye. This is the same issue I had with the standard blood knot. By tucking the end of the blood knot back into the top loop it is secured within the knot instead of trapped against the eye.

Where there is a large difference between the hook wire diameter and the width of the tippet I believe any knot that relies on friction with the eye to form the knot is liable to work loose. With Tenkara we are fishing with incredibly fine tippets and so, feasibly, most standard hook eyes represent a large enough difference for the problem to arise. Perhaps only the finest of dry fly hooks remain immune.

Perhaps tying your usual knot to a hook and then simulating the fight of a fish with jerks and pulls in different directions see how long it holds before the tag end works though and the knot is compromised.

The knot above does seem to be based on a surgeons knot but adapted for a hook eye. It tightens on itself and slides down the line to lock itself against the eye. The tag is secured in the knot and does not rely on friction with the eye. It certainly holds even the heaviest size 8 grub hooks on 5lb line.

Give it a try! ... Do the tests against your favorite knot on a big eyed hook and decide for yourself. Fishing is all about confidence.If you have confidence in the line, the hook, the knots and pattern then all there is to focus on is presentation to those elusive fish.

Cust.

[Deleted]

Ive used the Davy knot quite a lot & found it secure with the two brands of line im using, its very simple, neat & quick to tie.
I had my reservations about the knot to begin with due to how few turns it requires to work ,but its a firm favourite of mine now.

Regards Stevie

[custheyder]

I'm sure it works great, Stevie, most of the time. It's just my observation of how the knot is formed that puts a question mark on it for me. My view is that it is the relative diameters that are important, not the brand or type of line. Granted fluorocarbon is more slippery than nylon though and I'm sure that will play a part in loosening a knot. It's just my opinion though.

Cheers

Cust.

[Deleted]

I agree with you on how the knot is formed Cust.
Must admit to steering away from the davy knot with the larger diameter lines.

You mention fluorocarbon.
Ive struggled to use this with any confidence, regardless of knot type.
I keep giving it a go & it keeps failing me, even the expensive stuff. I would love to use it all the time but for some reason i cant seem to get on with it.
Mainly the problem for me is droppers failing where they are tied to the main line.
I use a four turn water knot & select the bottom tail facing down towards the point fly. Correct?. You tell me?
If someone has an answer for me i'll be willing to take it on board & put it into practice.

Regards Stevie.

[custheyder]

4 turn!!!.... Trust me on this you only need 2 turns. Then half hitch the bottom so it stands off the main line. Snip the top tag off.

[Deleted]

Cheers Cust.

2 turns?!! looks like i could save myself some time too.

Sound advice. Regards Stevie.

[custheyder]

No problem at all. The half hitch can be ommitted on very light tippets as it does introduce a slight weakness at the at point.

[orangeotter]

Some of our forum members who know me are familiar with my system of attaching droppers, can I share it with you as I find it superb and much better than a water/cove knot.

It does however need a knot in the leader to act as a stop knot.

I wish I could do diagrams but this is a description:

Cut a dropper reasonably over length and tie a loop at one end using a perfection loop, or a blood bight ( perhaps not well known) - these will result in the loop lying in line with dropper and not kicking to the side as with a surgeons loop.

Locate your stop knot and pass the dropper around the leader, above the knot - thread dropper end through the loop, tighten fully and then slide down to the stop knot.

You will see that the dropper stands out at right angles and this is due to the double thickness within the loop - in sea fishing terms this would be a paternoster. If the dropper length is say, 3" max then it's amazing how it stands out with a single wet/dry fly - even a small nymph will stand away from the leader. I use 4 flies when spider fishing and rarely get the fly twisted on the leader - if they do, then they just unhitch themselves.

This works well even with heavy nymphs but obviously can't stand off as much. It's superb for longer droppers when drifting from a boat and I even use it for sea-trout.

Just ensure that the dropper stays in position on the stop knot - if maybe you've accidentally moved it up a few inches it could be slid down with force by a taking fish, sometimes resulting in a break but this happens rarely to me so dont worry too much.

I'll be interested in your thoughts.

[custheyder]

Interesting idea... taking that a stage further and going back to my rock climbing days, would a prusik knot do away with the need for a stopper knot? ... I feel some experiments coming on next time I'm out fishing.

[orangeotter]

Never heard of a prusik knot. I should have mentioned that the loop in the dropper needs to be approx' 3/4" long. This loop is a figure of 8.