Tenkara hackle proportions

[jonathan27]

Hi

What hackle proportions would I be aiming for tying a tenkara fly? 2 times gape or more or less?

Thanks

Jonathan

[Paul G]

It varies but 1.5 to 2.5 x the gape is probably the rough ball-park. Broadly speaking the softer hackles tend to be tied a bit longer than the cock-hackled patterns.

Just as a point of interest, Mr. Amano (expert Japanese tenkara angler) ties all his flies on the same size hook with the same size body; he just varies the size of the hackle to change the overall size of his fly.

[jonathan27]

Thanks for the info Paul.

The concept of same hook different hackle size to vary patterns is very interesting. Even more so after your presentation at the BFFI where you talked about fish perceive movement over sharpness of focus for the detail. Hook size is irrelavant with the hackle creating the movement and the outline.

Cheers

Jonathan

[flatsghost]

Jonathan
Always worth remembering that hook size/weight might be important as far as sink rate goes in the absence of any downwelling currents. Otherwise Mr Amano's approach is very interesting.
Thanks Paul.
Glyn

[daves]

Hackle size, stiffness & density will also have a big influence on sink-rate. Small, soft, sparse hackled flies will sink fastest.

[Deleted]

Why mess about - if you want you fly to sink just stick a bead on it!

[springerman]

Mike, I mentioned a few months ago about using a 1.5mm tungsten bead that I incorporated in Dr Ishigaki's fly. I placed it on the hook, tied in the hackle then pushed the bead up against the hackle, as best I could. I then covered it in the thread body.  Not a lot of weight, but enough perhaps.  I also thought the wrappings would protect the rod if the fly hit the tip.

[Deleted]

I'm with you, use a beaded fly if you want to get deeper. I think we can get too carried away with the 'traditional'' "cultural" gig. If you really want to go down that root then use a bamboo rod and a horsehair leader!
I much prefer the simplicity angle, use modern aids like carbon fibre for rods and hi tec nylons for leaders and tippet mixed with anything you like for flies and fly materials. Who is bothered if the Japanese did or didn't do it that way I'm not! For all those following the trad way then good for you, it's just not for me! Why describe Tenkara as fly fishing simplified then proceed to make it as difficult as possible? Just don't get it!

[daves]

I use a range of weighted flies for my winter grayling Tenkara fishing. Many are bead-heads, some have Bidoz bodies & others leaded underbodies. There's no reason why the fly should hit the rod if you cast weighted patterns with a more open loop.

Whilst we have got a lot to learn from traditional Tenkara using Sakasa Kebari flies & traditional methods of presentation (particularly the subtle manipulations), Tenkara gear allows much improved presentation with many of our Western flies & techniques. For me variety is the spice of life.

[Paul G]

Ah, but think on this; if you combine a weighted fly with the traditional knowledge of the techniques for sinking unweighted kebari, then things start to get really interesting. Turns out those old boys knew a thing or two about hydrology, without referring to equations...all based on empirical observation. :-)

[Deleted]

Paul, if I had a clue what that means I am sure I'd agree with you wholeheartedly!?