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Post by custheyder on Apr 6, 2012 11:03:13 GMT
 Tied on the Gosen GII Torrents Ace eyeless hook. The copper rib was extended into a post to wrap the hackle round. The wire was then folded forwards and tied in to make a "tuft" of hackle on top. I'll let you know how it fishes when I get out this weekend. Cust. |
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Post by orangeotter on Apr 6, 2012 17:19:19 GMT
Looks good Cust' but what is the advantage of this type of hook please. I realise it's traditional and used before eyed hooks were invented.
Cheers,
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Post by custheyder on Apr 7, 2012 7:54:11 GMT
I'm not sure there is any huge advantage. You are right in saying they are traditional for tying this variety of fly. However, I'll work my way though some of my thoughts on the style of tying.
Without an eye or a spade end there is nothing to get in the way of forming the loop of silk, braid or mono. The loop is thought to give more movement of the fly but I do not necessarily believe that. Tenkara Talk did some tank tests and the results were marginal. I could wish myself to see it. What I do think is more relevant is that once a fish is hooked the loop acts like a flexible transition between the hook and the line. I'm sure I have lost fish due to the levering effect of flies tied to an eye. To my mind I think the loop acts as a dampener to the effect promoting a more positive hold that does not work itself free as easily. Perhaps this is why the silk is stiffened with a fruit juice by some of the Japanese tiers so it can act as a buffer more than allowing movement of the fly. This is very much my own thinking and open to discussion.
The wire in these hooks is finer than on any western style dry fly hook I have come across but it still maintains the strength needed. A fine wire and sharp point make penetration of the hook easier. A Tenkara rod with it's very flexible tip and the use of very fine tippet material means that you can't put much hooking power into the strike. The fine wire makes penetration and therefore hook hold easier. The result, fewer dropped fish.
With such light wire there is no weight to get a fly down. For a dry fly that is great, but as a wet fly hook that's a bit of a problem. I'm looking at ways of adding weight. Small tungsten beads (down to 2mm) a few turns of lead in the thorax. It's not a disadvantage I am too worried about because I can add weight easily.
The shape of these hooks is different to our eye, but similar to bait hooks in the course fishing world and klinkhammer hooks. Once dressed the thorax is slightly kinked away from the body so the hook can hang in a better hooking position for a dry fly. My feeling is that course fishing has put more thought into the shape of their hooks than the game fishing world because they, in some cases, use very light tackle with minimum hooking power. To have a similar shaped hook must have some advantage. This Japanese hook was developed for Ayu fishing and the shape has been perfected over a very long period of time.
Maybe there is not a huge advantage to this style of hook but perhaps a lots of little things that make up a significant difference. You'll have to make your own mind up which of the points I make you believe and what significance they have. One thing is for sure. I am very confident in the hooking and holding power of these hooks compared to western style hooks.
Cust.
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Post by orangeotter on Apr 7, 2012 14:16:47 GMT
Many thanks for such a comprehensive reply, I take several of your points. I'm a big fan of Klinkhamer Extreme hooks for dries which have a similar curve and contrary to belief, they're great hookers. I'd like to try the eyeless, can you suggest a source.
Thanks again Cust'
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Post by custheyder on Apr 7, 2012 16:43:32 GMT
There is only one source in the UK. That's me! Follow the link below. I have 2 types, one set made by Gosen the others by Gamakatsu.
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Post by orangeotter on Apr 7, 2012 22:42:21 GMT
Many thanks, I'll be ordering some for interest - what is the best material for the eye.
Cheers.
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Post by custheyder on Apr 8, 2012 7:20:19 GMT
I've used mono on this fly but I've used fine braided backing on other patterns. The traditional method is to use silk of approximately 0.4mm diameter.
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Post by orangeotter on Apr 8, 2012 12:53:27 GMT
Thanks, I look forward to trying it. Be in touch re hooks.
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Post by custheyder on Apr 8, 2012 20:39:30 GMT
The flies fished very well. They sat beautifully on the water and the one fish that had a go was hooked and landed. A similar fly with a 2.5mm silver bead and starling body hackle was engulfed and taken by what might have been a sea trout. A tree ate the other one I'd tied!
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Post by orangeotter on Apr 13, 2012 12:40:33 GMT
Many thanks for the hooks Cust', can't wait to try them. Also impressed with the tricol JMC nylon.
Your service was excellent !
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Post by custheyder on Apr 13, 2012 13:05:09 GMT
You're more than welcome. The three colour DTK (Orange, Yellow and White) from JMC is good stuff. I've used it for very light fishing and it really helps the visibility of the line without adding any weight.
I've had anotyher thought for the Gosen hooks... Will have to wait for the end of the weekend as I'm very busy at the theatre working backstage from now till then. Easter Festival of Drama, I'm stage manager for one of the teams in the competition.
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Post by leckie on Apr 13, 2012 19:59:55 GMT
Cust, I've tied a few flies up on the eyeless hooks I got from you...I forgot to varnish / glue the loop in...do you think it will hold if a fish takes  Alex |
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Post by custheyder on Apr 14, 2012 8:57:40 GMT
I should think they'll be fine. give the connection a test when you tie them on in the same way you'd test a knot. I've not glued mine and not lost a loop yet!
I should add that on the mono loop I bite on the mono at the tie in point a few times to give it a bit of crinkle that the thread can grip to.
Cust.
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