level line vs tapered

[orangeotter]

This is not meant to be a heavy discussion on all points, rather some observations of mine on the quest to find the most suitable line for me. When I started the Tenkara journey, I was addicted to Simon's Furles, some made to complicated but effective formulae. Eventually I realised that the best option is really fluorocarbon and have been happily using them for quite some time. Several makes were trialled and I found that by far the best (for me) is Yamatoyo, available from Esoteric. The yellow colour and performance is giving me great results and much satisfaction. I started with #3.5 but moved to #3 to minimise sag which although not pronounced, did affect a dry or even a sunk Sakasa Kebari. I've been happy with the #3 but felt that it didn't cast quite as I wanted it to on my very expensive Daiwa CF39 12ft 9 7:3. I do have to say at this point that after trying the new ESO 410 7:3, the Daiwa has been retired - the extra reach of the 410 has made a significant improvement to my fishing.

However: I've always been greatly interested in leader make-up for Western style and firmly believe that a tapered one is best. I was somewhat surprised that a level fluoro' line appears to be the most popular nowadays but happily use one. I did obtain a knotted, tapered line from T/Bum when I bought the Daiwa and found it an excellent caster but didn't carry on using it. I retried it recently on the social day at Llangollen and was again impressed with it's presentation and lack of sag.

The down side for me is that it's orange, I have a hang up with this. My favourite Yamatoyo is yellow when spooled but green in the air and I started to yearn for a yellow tapered line but where to get one from. Because I have a spool of #3.5 and 3, all I needed was a line in the region of #2.5 to create my own but this is not available. The answer was to dye some Varivas 0x (14lb) Supertippet coated nylon using Veniard Fluoro' green and can you believe that it's a perfect match. The diameter drop was correct so I made a line using 4ft of each weight - a trial on the lawn yesterday suggested that I was on the right path.

I fished the Dee today using the new line and I have to say that it cast like a dream, and fished with absolutely minimum sag. There is no doubt in my mind that it's a significant improvement on the level #3 and I intend to carry on using it. Supertippet isn't fluoro' but I can't say that this is a problem. I tried dying fluorocarbon but it wouldn't take at all.

The moral of this post is simply to make you aware of my trial and to show what can be done with little effort - you may feel that it's worth a shot.

It may be that #4 Yamatoyo would be worth a try, ie, a mix of #4, 3.5 &3 but I really do appreciate the lightness of my trial.

I'll be very interested in your comments and findings should you try it.

[dbl]

This sounds fascinating. It seems logical to use a taper, but, oddly, no manufacturer has yet produced one in fluro that I have seen. What knots are you using to avoid hingeing?

[orangeotter]

I'm using a normal blood knot, if tightened properly it won't hinge.3 turns are enough as the material is thick.

Tenkara Bum used to sell a knotted tapered line, probably still do.

If not, it's a DIY job ...

[Dyfan]

Thanks for the line! Good result so far by the sounds of it, I'll be able to give it a go on friday. It might be worth trying a 4, 3.5, 3 leader for windy situations or weighted flies?

[daves]

I've been experimenting with super light 1.5 & 2 level lines. I shall also have to try using some of these light fluorocarbon lines to make up a tapered line as you suggest. I've tried tapered copoly lines made up from several thickness but was unconvinced about their advantages.

Also when using tiny dry flies (size 26 to 30) I often taper my tippet which helps turn the flies over better.

[orangeotter]

I checked the T/Bum site after my reply to dbl and it seems that Chris has discontinued the knotted,tapered line, presumably for commercial reasons. I wonder if he has any ' old stock'.

Without a doubt, a level line works and is convenient but as DaveS points out, a fine taper will turn over a small fly that much better.

Until you try a tapered line, it's hard to see the benefits - the way they hold up without sag is tremendous.

[cm_stewart]

I stopped making the tapered fluoro lines when Sunline discontinued their size 2 and 1.5 lines. I have not tried to dye the Varivas super tippet, but I have been experimenting with a shorter colored line and longer clear line/tippet. You may be able to use clear 1X Varivas fluoro (which is a true size 2.5) instead of needing to dye the final length. Also, instead of 4', 4', 4', you might try 5' of size 3.5, 4' of size 3, and then 3' of clear 1X fluoro. It will sag very slightly more because of the longer butt section, but you will save the time/mess in dying. I think you may find that the colored midsection of the line provides sufficient strike detection. If not, a very short length of a brightly colored nylon mono (maybe only 2") between your line and your tippet should be sufficient.

[orangeotter]

Thank you Chris: the 4,4,4 was only arbitrary and I realised after that you'd used a formula similar to your suggestion above, it does work however. Varivas dyes easily but I like your idea of a clear section - my only reservation being that the coloured section could then be approx. 6ft from the fly. Your short indicator against the tippet would certainly work.

I'll try more options - good fun isn't it.

Appreciate your input.

[adric]

this is a very interesting discussion. Have you thought about creating a forward tapered line as this may well aid casting?
Richard

[dbl]

I was wondering about how to dye fluorocarbon line, and I came across this discussion from 2012 in the flyfishing.co.uk forum. Quite how much one would trust a line after this treatment I don't know, but here's the link:
www.flyfishing.co.uk/general-fly-fishing-discussion/238492-dying-mono-fluorocarbon-line.html

[orangeotter]

Adric: I used to use weight forward leaders and the sag is pronounced, I don't consider it to be an option but why not make one and try it. They certainly cast well.


dbl: that process sounds a bit random, I wouldn't want to try it. Should you want to make a tapered orange line without dying, weights from 5 to 2.5 are readily available.

[adric]

I will

One other thought is to add a spiral indicator to the tip of the leader and then leader colour would not be an issue.

Richard

[Paul G]

Surely less sag with the lighter material next to the rod tip (i.e. weight forward)? Unless I've misunderstood.

I've tied up a few lines with a heavier short section next to the tippet and then light level line to the rod tip in order to reduce "sag" on a rod that was too stiff to cast a full light level line and it worked well for that purpose.

[cm_stewart]

I tried a spiral indicator once and found that it added a tremendous amount of wind resistance, greatly affecting the cast. If you have relatively heavy flies that will pull it through the air it may work, but with a light fly it was not what I would call an improvement.

I have tried one or two weight forward lines and did not like the way they cast, but I did not play around very much with weights and lengths, so I'm sure you could improve upon what I tried.

Do not discard the idea of 6' of clear tippet/line between the fly and the colored line without actually trying it. You might be surprised. Depending on the glare on the water, at times I have to watch my line at a spot much further than that from the fly and it still twitches - not as much to be sure - but enough to signal strikes.

[orangeotter]

I certainly wouldn't advocate spirals for the reason you say - do we need any indicator other than the line.

I'll definitely try your idea of clear line and let you know how it goes.

I don't think that WF lines add anything to Tenkara but a WF leader on Western tackle is a huge asset.