Tenkara: method or a rod?

[jonathan27]

Been doing quite a bit of online research into Tenkara in the quest to pick up new ideas or tips as Im only 10 months into the scene. Ive found namely on Tenkarabum that there are 4 styles of rods (http://www.tenkarabum.com/tenkara-rods.html)

Tenkara: a rod designed for fishing a single fly
Seiryu: long soft action rods for small fish in streams
Keiryu: stiff actioned rod for fishing one or more weighted nymphs
Tanago: small rod less than 10ft for small stream light fishing

Now are the Tenkara rods commercially available incorporating these styles in the action they posess? Or are they more a way of categorising a rod much like a trout rod or a salmon rod?

Or is it all a case of rod type or style is irrelevant and it is in fact the use of a fixed line and telescopic rod with a lilian connection at the tip is the method of Tenkara?

Jonathan

[cm_stewart]

Depends on how precisely you want to define things. There are more than just four styles of fixed line rods used in Japan. I've only decided to import 4 (so far). A tenkara rod is indeed a rod designed for fishing a single wet fly in streams. A seiryu rod need not be long. Some are as short as 1.9m. They are designed for fishing for small fish in streams. A keiryu rod need not be stiff. The softest keiryu rod I've measured is softer than the stiffest seiryu rod I've measured. Keiryu rods are designed for fishing with split shot, so they tend to be stiffer than rods designed for unweighted flies. Tanago rods are designed for fishing for tanago. Tanago fishing is fishing for tanago, just like trout fishing is fishing for trout and carp fishing is fishing for carp. In the UK, you could fish for bitterling and call it tanago fishing (because the English equivalent of tanago is bitterling), but otherwise, anything you do with a short rod is NOT tanago fishing. I regret ever having called the Daiwa Soyokaze a tanago rod, as tanago is just one of several different types of fish Daiwa suggested it for. I could just as easily have called it a shrimp rod, as Daiwa recommended it for fishing for shrimp as well. If you are fishing for trout with a Soyokaze, you are trout fishing, though.

Rod type may in fact be irrelevant. If you want to fish an unwieghted fly and prefer to use a very light weight, sensitive rod that is best for fish under perhaps 20cm, you may very well want to use a seiryu rod but I would argue you would still be tenkara fishing. You can also fish an unweighted fly with many keiryu rods and that would still be tenkara fishing, at least as far as I'm concerned. However, if you use a tenkara rod, and fish the duo (or is it a duo - not that familiar with the proper phrasing), which I am sure many people on this board do, it would NOT be tenkara fishing in the eyes of most Japanese tenkara anglers.

There are commercially available tenkara rods that from a standpoint of the action of the blank itself, are virtually indistinguishable from some seiryu rods and other tenkara rods whose action is virtually indistinguishable from some keiryu rods. I would suggest you read my essays Seiryu-Tenkara-Keiryu Continuum I and II www.tenkarabum.com/seiryu-tenkara-keiryu-continuum.html and www.tenkarabum.com/seiryu-tenkara-keiryu-continuum-part-ii.html

Tenkara is a style of fishing. There is a type of rod specifically designed for that type of fishing called a tenkara rod. You can use other types of rods to do tenkara fishing and you can do other types of fishing with a tenkara rod.

The use of any fixed line telescopic rod with lillian attachment is not necessarily tenkara fishing. Most fixed line telescopic lillian equipped rods in Japan are use for bait fishing, and no one would consider bait fishing to be tenkara.

All that said, it's all an exercise in semantics and has virtually no importance on the type of fishing YOU want to do. Fish the way you want, and don't be terribly concerned what it is called (unless you are trying to describe it to someone else or ask for advice on your "tenkara fishing"). Even then, it would be better to describe exactly what you are doing, because not everyone (especially outside Japan) defines the term the same way.

Also, you must understand that some (possibly many) people will not agree with what I have just written.

[flatsghost]

Jonathan
As your first reply from Chris states there will be many viewpoints on this one!Some say you can be either Tenkara fishing or, fly fishing with a Tenkara outfit - big differences in many people's eyes.
I would say find a rod that suits your casting style and of a length appropriate to where you intend to fish and for what size of fish and go from there. There is plenty of choice of weapon out there. Not sure where you live but perhaps hook up with some other practitioners and have a go with some of their kit and see if it suits you. There is an event coming up on the Nidd in October ( see other post) which would really help you to decide and learn plenty.
Chris, I bought a 'Tanago' rod from an English dealer rod of 10' and suffered a confusion in the understanding of the differences between that and Tankara at the time. I now realise but to be honest find the rod great for smaller streams and trout to say 10" or so.
Good luck Jonathan - it is great fun finding out!
Glyn

[Paul G]

Yeah, thinking of tenkara as an overall approach and then choosing the kit that is most apt for performing that approach is the most helpful way to view it.
In addition there are lots of effective ways to use 'tenkara' rods that are lots of fun too (which don't very closely resemble the fishing style for which they were developed)

[daves]

The key thing with Tenkara Style fishing, whether you fish traditional Sakasa Kebari flies, or if like me you fish your usual dry flies & nymphs, is to choose a setup (rod plus line) that works for you. There are very few bad Tenkara rods about & as others have pointed out some rods not specifically designed for Tenkara work very well in appropriate circumstances. Just as with conventional rods some folks prefer lighter line rods & softer actions whilst others prefer heavier lines & faster actioned rods. When it comes to the crunch most half decent Tenkara rods will do the job. A decent angler can adapt to a range of equipment. However, there is no doubting that a decent rod, designed for a specific job will be better than one that is less function specific. For example a soft 5:5 rod will not be ideal for Czech style nymphing, whilst a stiff 7:3 rod will be less suited to fishing a 2 weight level line & size 24 CdC midge.
I started with a 12' 6:4 rod (Tenkara USA Iwana) & have now got several different rods, each suited to different sized rivers, different techniques & different conditions.
Undoubtedly the best way to choose what suits you is to try out a range of gear at one of the Tenkara Demonstration Days or by trying the rods of other enthusiasts.
We're all on a big learning curve since Tenkara is so new in the UK (I've only been at it for 3 years).

[cm_stewart]

Sept 22, 2013 10:37:25 GMT flatsghost said:

Chris, I bought a 'Tanago' rod from an English dealer rod of 10' and suffered a confusion in the understanding of the differences between that and Tankara at the time. I now realise but to be honest find the rod great for smaller streams and trout to say 10" or so.

Yes, I know the rod and know of the dealer. I offer the same rod in 6', 8', and 9'. I agree with you that it really is a nice rod for trout to 10" in smaller streams. How the use of a 10' rod when fly fishing for trout got to be called tanago fishing (which in actuality is bait fishing for bitterling) is a story in itself, driven by one US merchant trying to defend a market and one UK merchant trying to carve out a market. I have tried from the beginning - at least since I learned by accident that a rod Daiwa recommended for goby, crucian carp, chub, tanago and shrimp fishing can work quite nicely for tenkara fishing - to separate the rod from the method. In this case, your method is tenkara, your rod isn't. Does that matter? Not in the least.

The waters have been muddied even further, I fear. For those smaller streams and smaller trout, I think a seiryu rod is a nicer choice than the Kiyotaki. Unfortunately, if you buy a Seiryu rod (capital S brand name) you will not get a seiryu rod (small s type of rod). I guess they didn't learn from my mistake of calling the Soyokaze a tanago rod. The seiryu rods I would choose for small streams like that are 9'8" long and weigh .9 ounce.

[flatsghost]

Chris
Thanks for the info. on rods/dealers/uses - fascinating but, as you say it does not matter what I use it for as long as it is fit for purpose. I used it on my first trip on the Discover Tenkara syndicate waters back in April when with an 8' line and 3' leader I caught a large number of fish as I could get close to them in most cases and did not need a long line.( I used a small copper bead head #18 that day until a rise started and then a Griffiths gnat #20 did the trick.) It would be nicer if the rod had a grip of some kind but weighing only 44gms it is a feather in the hand. The 'Tanago' rod had a crisp action - not sure if they are all like tht or not? If I get chance to handle a Seiryu I will do so as to date I have not tried an TUSA rods. My other rods are all from Esoteric in 6:4 and 7:3.
Best wishes
Glyn
PS I did post in July having fished Tenkara in Michigan whilst staying with a friend - the local guys had heard of it but not seen it at that time. Had some fun on the Manistee river with browns and brookies (and mosquitos in squadrons!!)

[adric]

Hi All

Having just read through the posts I feel that there are two issues. One is about the classification of the fixed line rods and the other is how we use them. I am coming to the conclusion that Tenkara is more about technique than equipment. It would be possible to fish in a Tenkara style with a light western rod and long leader. Just as it is possible to fish weighted nymphs in a western style with a Tenkara rod.

Richard

[Paul G]

There are certainly tons of transferable skills that you can learn in tenkara and then transfer to whatever kit you are using (even if it is a branch and a length of string, which could be tons of fun actually ).

There are, for example, a basic set of bread and butter presentations that you can learn (which if it appeals to you, often have specific Japanese names to identify them).

Consequently, any rod and line set up that allows you to hold the rod tip high and keep much of the casting line off the water can be employed in some way to perform these presentations (gyaku-biki, ogi-biki, hashirakashi etc.)

More on these named technique in due course though..... (still need to get them arranged into a teachable set of activities/drills )

[jonathan27]

Chris I appreciate your time to respond with such detail I have spent many an hour reading the information on your site which is what brought about such a query. I think I may have been confused/questioned slightly with 2 rods I own a 360cm Tenkara UK Seiryu rod and a 390cm Kiyotaki. Namely the Seiryu being a very soft action compared to my 7:3 Nano tenkara rod led me to beleive it is true to its name and the Kiyotaki performs great as a nymph/duo rod yet is a Keiryu yet the Nano 7:3 is also a great nymph rod but a tenkara rod. As ypu state though it is a case of using a rod fit for purpose.

I hace also read and been inspired to seriously take up tenkara by articles written by Dave for the Grayling Society Magazine and as you suggest in your post I to fish my conventional flies tenkara style. I do feel though that as I become more confident and practiced in the art then I will give the one fly tyied kebari style a go.

I am hoping to make it along to the tenkara day on the Nidd as I am based in Lancashire to learn a little more. I am finding it a very interesting and thought provoking adventure though.

Jonathan

[jonathan27]

This video seems to shed a little more light on the number of different fixed line telescopic rods available in japan

[cm_stewart]

Ah yes, that video. It does indeed describe several different types of rods. However, considering that it was made not that long after I started selling the Soyokaze, which I labeled as tanago rods, I do have to wonder if one underlying purpose of the video was to ridicule the very idea of using a tanago rod for tenkara fishing. He did keep coming back to it and they all had a good laugh about it. One more reason why I never should have labeled the Soyokaze a tanago rod. The Soyokaze came in lengths up to 310cm, longer than TUSA's 9' Iwana (and better able to cast a light line). The tanago rod the store manager showed was 90cm and is nothing at all like a Soyokaze.

From the video, one would certainly get the impression that no rod other than a cork-gripped tenkara rod can cast a line. Having been done by a company that sells only tenkara rods and was starting to feel some competition from other types of rods, the video was a brilliant piece of propaganda. Anyone who has used a rod like the Soyokaze, Sagiri, Kiyotaki, Daiwa Kiyose 43MF, etc knows that isn't the case at all.

As a few people have mentioned, go to the tenkara demonstration days and try a good number of different rods. Listen to people who have actually used them. As with tenkara in general, the people who are most adamantly against something are almost always people who haven't ever tried it themselves.

[jonathan27]

Chris Im glad you raise the points you have as I did think watching the video he was highly critical of any other rod than one with a cork handle was no good for tenkara. I thought the video served a good purpose to show the sheer range of rods available for fixed line if you can look past the blatant propaganda. I did think the Tanago rods shown were a little on the micro size as I know the UK distributor of the tanago rods and the lengths he has in stock and talked when we have fished together.

Im hoping to get along to an upcoming Tenkara day to speak with other anglers and have a look at the setups.

Jonathan

[custheyder]

Hi Jonathan,

Getting along to meets is a great idea because not all rods with the same length and flex cast the same way. There is a huge difference between some manufacturers. At the recent visit from Dr Ishigaki one of the overall points he raised about rods was that they must recover quickly. After the cast the tip has to stop bouncing! You'll find a number of rods available in the UK just don't manage it and as a result the accuracy of their casting and the manipulation of the fly suffers.

Tenkara, to me, borders on philosophy. It's more than just the method (casting, fly manipulation) it's also about how you approach your fishing and the choices you make. A quest for simplicity while remaining highly efficient. Like a game of Go! (..or Reversi) very simple but with many subtleties that are born of the mind set as much as skill and technique.

The choice is yours. You can fish with Tenkara tackle incorporating skills you have learnt with western techniques or try and learn the specifics of the Tenkara techniques. To me it really doesn't matter what you choose to do. My concern is producing the best rod to cast a light line accurately.

Have fun, go fishing.

[adric]

Hi All
[There are certainly tons of transferable skills that you can learn in tenkara and then transfer to whatever kit you are using (even if it is a branch and a length of string, which could be tons of fun actually ).

I think Paul is right when he says even a branch would do. Is not this where it all began?

Daniel also makes a good point when he says

Tenkara, to me, borders on philosophy. It's more than just the method (casting, fly manipulation) it's also about how you approach your fishing and the choices you make.

I would say that Tenkara is a method and that Tenkara rods are just the best to use because they have been designed for that method.

Richard