Level line and furled line HELP!!!

[marcouns]

Can't find line u mentioned on esoteric site. Can u post a link?
Ta
M

[orangeotter]

If you mean Yamatoyo - Daniel doesn't list it on the site but contact him on [e-mail], I know he has some.

[JP]

You will find the Yamatoyo line on Daniel's site here; www.esoterictackle.co.uk/15_yamatoyo

Yamatoyo is a great mid-visibility line. Also worth a look is Sanyo Valcan Applaud level line available in a lovely light olive green or a more subtle orange.

Both PG and I have noticed a significant difference in capture rates on some occasions when comparing different colour lines. It's not a significant factor ALL of the time but when it IS a factor it's a big one! We're talking the difference between a 2 or 3 fish day and a 20 or 30 fish day.

On the subject of line types... everyone who's been practicing tenkara for any length of time will have their favourites but my advice to beginners would be to start with a medium to heavy Japanese fluorocarbon level line (#4 or #4.5) around the length of your rod. This will allow you to cast fairly well, fairly quickly and feel the line working the rod as you cast. Doing it this way will help you develop "muscle memory" and really get a feel for casting your rod.

Once you've got to grips with casting in this way you can then start to explore different lines that can be slightly more challenging to cast such as lighter fluorocarbon down as far as #2 or copolymers which are all much lighter for any given diameter (when compared to fluorocarbon).

[Paul G]

One example was in some of the very low water conditions during the little heat wave that we had this summer. Bright orange lines were the kiss of death - but muted light olive was bang on.

Conversely, with more water on the river; no difference in fish spooking between different coloured lines - but often a big difference in take detection in varying light/shade conditions.


Edit - also we have found a huge difference in spooking fish when landing any of your casting line on the water (whatever colour) and total "fly first" presentation casts and holding all line and most of the tippet off the water. With the fly first cast, a fish will often home in on the "plop" of the fly and then snaffle it with gusto; but even if you have a nice delicate fly "plop" - if this is accompanied by a bit of a splash from your casting line within a 6 to 10 foot radius; in flatter/shallower water you can say goodbye to that fish.

[daves]

I fully agree about the landing of casting line on the water spooking very wary fish in low clear water: it's very humbling! As for line colour Stu Crofts has felt that the bright red Ultima Red Ice has possibly spooked fish. I normally use the bright yellow Ultima Seastrike & have not felt that it was a problem even in the very low, clear water we've had recently in East Yorkshire.

There's no doubt that it pays to adopt the precautionary principle when conditions favour the fish.

Since most of my fishing is dry fly highly visible lines are far less important to me except when I change to nymphing whilst still using the same line set-up..

[phil]

After lots of happy experimentation with various furled lines, both bought and made by myself, and the various level lines, both flurocarbon and copolymer, I can only concur with with Chris Stewart, JP and Paul G. that time spent practicing with flurocarbon level lines will pay dividends in the long run. The density of flurocarbon over copolymer allows the angler to use very long lines, 6m and more, when the conditions demand it to great advantage.

It's fun to experiment as you learn so much about tenkara and fixed line fishing, I still fancy making some traditional horse hair lines to fish with, but when I'm serious about catching fish then I only use flurocarbon level line.

Personal favourite Yamatoyo #3 & #3.5 in light green rigged on my Nissin Fuji Airstage 410 6:4.

Tight lines.

[Dyfan]

Does anyone have a solution to seeing line against bright backgrounds. I've tried a few colours now and even painted the end of my leader black. I imagine a dark line would silhouette against the sky and spook fish? I've fished some beautiful runs just by feel and I'm sure I've missed lots of bites.

[springerman]

I can verify what orangeotter says about the colour change in the Yamatoyo line.  I used the line yesterday but on someone else's rod.  I could not believe it was the same line.  It was green.  I found it cast very well.  I obtained a length to try from Daniel also.  I can not say how my catch rates are because I mainly use orange. I also have pink lines.
I got the Yamatoyo because of the comments made by orangeotter regarding spooking fish.
I will of course be using the Yamatoyo line this very week.  I will report back if I have any observations. 

[springerman]

Another question re level line.  I like to fish dry.  As such I do not require a coloured line.  Clear fluorocarbon would be better....or would it.
Has anybody done any research or tests on clear level line?  Can anybody  recommend what to use as a clear level line?
It might be useful in clear, low water conditions, when takes can be more visible to the angler.  Not spook fish as much. 
Can anyone help? 

[Paul G]

Sept 5, 2013 20:39:16 GMT Dyfan said:

Does anyone have a solution to seeing line against bright backgrounds. I've tried a few colours now and even painted the end of my leader black. I imagine a dark line would silhouette against the sky and spook fish? I've fished some beautiful runs just by feel and I'm sure I've missed lots of bites.

If you can maintain good "contact" with your (wet) fly and hold just the knot between the tippet and end of your level line off the water by about an inch or so; you may feel the odd take - but shouldn't rely on it.

However, there is a basic way of fishing which means you don't always have to see the line perfectly.By always practicing this basic/fundamental dead drift presentation taught by Dr. Ishigaki (and mentioned in reference book sources) you will be able to cope with the times when you can't see the line very well. The technique is to cast and land the fly upstream into the water with a high "stop" of the rod on the forward cast and then track the fly downstream with the tip of the level line held just off the water as described. You then pick off and re-cast.

The crucial detail is that you only leave the fly in the water for about a count of "3". So, what happens is, the "plop" is something that attracts the fish and it turns towards the fly (the count of "one"). Then it moves to intercept the fly - which will fish about 5 to 10 cm below the surface if you track the line as described (the count of "two"). Then, on "3" it will take the fly (if the fish is there). So if you get a take on the "pick off" for your next cast; you just turn that into a nice brisk strike to set the hook.

The thinking and practice is that - when fishing at that depth, if the fish notices the plop but doesn't turn to the fly - then it still won't have taken it even if you leave it in the water much longer. By doing this when you can visually detect takes very well; you are not at such a disadvantage when looking into tricky light situations.

[custheyder]

Sept 9, 2013 12:57:47 GMT springerman said:

Another question re level line.  I like to fish dry.  As such I do not require a coloured line.  Clear fluorocarbon would be better....or would it.
Has anybody done any research or tests on clear level line?  Can anybody  recommend what to use as a clear level line?
It might be useful in clear, low water conditions, when takes can be more visible to the angler.  Not spook fish as much. 
Can anyone help? 

I have clear fluorocarbon and can cast it just as well as any other line. Finding fluorocarbon which is thick enough is a challenge, but check out sea fishing places for their shock leader. You'll be looking for around 0.3mm which will be 16lbs breaking strain or there abouts.

The other alternative is my BMS Fluorocarbon and cutting it so that you have a clear section towards the tippet before a colour. That way you have a choice of dry's or swapping to a nymph and still having some chance of seeing the line.

[Dyfan]

Sept 9, 2013 13:00:41 GMT Paul G said:

Sept 5, 2013 20:39:16 GMT Dyfan said:

If you can maintain good "contact" with your (wet) fly and hold just the knot between the tippet and end of your level line off the water by about an inch or so; you may feel the odd take - but shouldn't rely on it.

However, there is a basic way of fishing which means you don't always have to see the line perfectly.By always practicing this basic/fundamental dead drift presentation taught by Dr. Ishigaki (and mentioned in reference book sources) you will be able to cope with the times when you can't see the line very well. The technique is to cast and land the fly upstream into the water with a high "stop" of the rod on the forward cast and then track the fly downstream with the tip of the level line held just off the water as described. You then pick off and re-cast.

The crucial detail is that you only leave the fly in the water for about a count of "3". So, what happens is, the "plop" is something that attracts the fish and it turns towards the fly (the count of "one"). Then it moves to intercept the fly - which will fish about 5 to 10 cm below the surface if you track the line as described (the count of "two"). Then, on "3" it will take the fly (if the fish is there). So if you get a take on the "pick off" for your next cast; you just turn that into a nice brisk strike to set the hook.

The thinking and practice is that - when fishing at that depth, if the fish notices the plop but doesn't turn to the fly - then it still won't have taken it even if you leave it in the water much longer. By doing this when you can visually detect takes very well; you are not at such a disadvantage when looking into tricky light situations.

Thanks for taking the time Paul! I'll look forward to giving it a go next time I'm out, it'll save a lot of frustration.

I've been using bead heads recently and the 'plop' really does move them in the low water we've got at the minute. I've watched lots of fish do exactly what you've described (many turning away when I've been using hi-vis orange!) and can imagine the count of 3 will work a treat when I'm fishing 'blind'. 

Cheers,

Dyfan

[Paul G]

Nice one,

It also opens up using the more subdued colours of lines or clear lines and still being able to fish sub-surface patterns even in less than ideal visibility conditions.

Let us know if you have any positive results

[custheyder]

The carp world has some green, brown and camo fluorocarbons. I'm not sure if they get heavy enough for our purposes but could be interesting. If we consider that more often than not the background to the line will be the sky then how about blue? It should stand out relatively well against foliage for our casting purposes but be fairly hidden from fish looking upwards.

Just a couple of extra thoughts.

[springerman]

Custheyder,  Thank you for all your information.
I do have some of your BMS fluorocarbon so I will give it a try.